Santa has nothing to do with religion. What is the matter with people? No matter what you do, someone will be “offended”. Whatever happened to being concerned with the majority? Several people can ruin it for everyone? It’s insane.

To whomever complained about Santa. TOUGH!

I complain about the the lying illegal-loving job-killing country destroyer in the White House but no one removes him (until Nov 2012 that is).

If you don’t like Santa, head to Saudi Arabia. They are so very tolerant of other’s beliefs.

This is exactly why God told the Jews not to mix with the occupants of the promised land on their exodus from Egypt. Multiculturalism is ultimately the death of every society. Thank God we have immigration quotas, or we may not even know our own country by now.

Why is it that Christians are asked to be, expected to be and are tolerant of non-Christians, but every whim of intolerant non- Christians are catered to?

Good point, Mark Wright. Why can’t the people who hate Santa and Christmas just get with their own program and “be tolerant”?

Damn white of them to “allow it”.

The “government affiliated” organization will allow religious celebrations of all faiths.

More like the people who pay their pay checks let it be known that their political correctness was expendable. And so were they.

Because hatred of Christianity and all that it stands for is now official government policy. Remind you of any place else in the last hundred years?

God Bless America–LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!!! It is Satan who wants to destroy religion and Godly love in America. Think about whose side you are on because your eternal eternity is at stake.

Ugh, do these folks have editors??? Error in the first sentence, “one again” should be “once again.” I should get paid to do this.

Paste it in a word doc. No squiggly lines = no problem – next!

Dana,

I see you’re not keeping abreast of what’s going on. Our “quotas” only ensure that 85 percent of our immigrants will come from the Third World and Asia. This is why the white population in the US has dropped from almost 90 percent in 1965 to only 63 percent today (and it dropped from 69 percent just during the last decade). The reality is that huge swaths of America already don’t look like the one our parents knew.

Wake up.

It requires total idiots (aka, ‘innerlecsul libbruls’) who have been educated far beyond their intelligence to think the magical Santa Claus has any significance to any religion at all. And it appears the hospital’s ‘objectors’ fit that description quite well, as it does to the hospital managers who groveled before the ignorant whiners.

CBS station web sites get the most labored ‘jokes’.

Don’t you just love religion and busy bodies
Santa Claus (Kris Kringle) is a pagan ritual to celebrate the winter solistice.
I feel sorrow for those so narrow minded people that take joy out of everything in the name of god (lower case deliberate)

Um, no, it’s not a pagan holiday. It celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ.

You have fallen victim to anti-Christian propaganda.

Well said and soooo true!

Thanks.

I’ll answer your question. Because you’re dealing with evil people who won’t deal fairly or yield to reason. They only understand the power principle and need to be defeated.

If you’re waiting for them to be fair or even compromise, you’ve fallen into their trap.

Actually, Christian’s ripped the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter out of the hands of Satan a long time ago. I like that but Satan sure doesn’t!

Anyway, Santa Claus (nor the Easter Bunny for you athetists info) has no Christian significance at all, it’s just a game we play with little kids to add a bit of magic to their young lives before they have to face the grim realities of life. And I like that too, but our more prissy ‘libs’ don’t seem to.

I was offended by removing Santa…whoever don’t like it tough….every year we see some idiots try to undermine our traditions. f them

JustAGuy,

Do you know this for sure? I would sincerely like to know (I’m not asking the question to be argumentative).

This is what happens when you elect a de facto atheist to the presidency.

Our family has always been ashamed of my brother. He’s always been the black sheep of the family.

And he used to kick me in the womb.

While I am glad that that Santa is back-feminized America will continue to fall. And once it does women will lose their unappreciated special rights.

Mike,

You’re a very astute man. When the feminists and others succeed in fully collapsing the West, there will be an adjustment. And women will be put back in the kitchen whether they like it or not.

Male dominance is the default.

“…and there had been complaints from patients who were not Christian.”

It was most likely a Jew… or a crypto-Jew who is ‘posing’ as an atheist.

Same people who keep trying to ban Christmas trees & nativity scenes.

You need a lot of help.

Better check your Bible. Actually the Romans killed Jesus…..But you probably don’t even own a Bible.

We know who the “Santa” is… A good reporter would tell us a bit more about the faceless bureaucrat (aka Grinch)

quo warranto,B.O.?

I think we allowed too many immigrants into this country that do not want to become Americans. They come here and then want us to change. I SAY NO. This is America come here and become American or stay the Heck out!!! People used to want to be here to enjoy our Freedoms, Now they come here and want to take our Freedoms away. NO, NO, NO!!

I do not believe a Jewish person complained. Your hatred of Jews is abominable.Why don’t you just stop with your guessing games, crypto-jew What is wrong with you!!!

I’m gonna go on record as saying there was no complaint. My guess is some administrator with an anti-Christmas and/or Christian bias made a unilateral decision. I’d be willing to bet money on it.

If indeed this is a public/state-affiliated hospital then such complaints could be public record,right? Hmmm…

P.S. It is a fact that 92 percent or more of Americans celebrate Christmas, whether or not they celebrate it as a religious holiday. I’m guessing that in South Carolina the percentage is even higher.

I love it when the ACLUE loses and the good guys win.

Man, are you stupid.

Now, you’re gettin’ it, Hollings–inclusion, not exclusion. PC run amok.

Good. This is the United States of America. Santa Claus is welcome!

I hope they learned.

PLEASE OH PLEASE!!!!! PLEASE ! Get the difference between immigrant and illegal immigrant. The media, schools and the anti american federal government have been successful in erasing the difference between the two in the minds of the american people.

Good call. As a result of this mess I have made the decision to never give another cent to ANY charity affiliated with cancer research or care. I would not want to offend the other charities I don’t give to by continuing to give to these creeps.
Gee, look, Ma, I can be PC too.

“there had been complaints from patients who were not Christian”

Bull! I’ll bet anything that it was one or two joyless idiots. I hear about the tyranny of the majority. What about the tyranny of the minority? Here you have a tradition that harms nobody. On the contrary, it brings joy to people who are suffering. Yet, we will bow down to one or two miserable jerks, who are determined to make sure everybody else is as miserable as they.

FB,

Here is usually the difference: An illegal immigrant is an unassimilable Third Worlder who comes here without the official sanction of the US government.

A llegal immigrant is an unassimilable Third Worlder who comes here with the official sanction of the US government.

Both usually vote for socialists upon being naturalized.

Both usually have no use for our traditions.

You were saying?

I would consider being called “stupid” by someone named “fartburger” a badge of honor.

I find this notion of “collective guilt” very annoying. It wasn’t “the Romans” or “the Jews” that killed Jesus. It was some particular individuals. It is absurd to blame an entire group for the actions of a few.

Wow – generalize much? I’m an atheist, and I love Santa!

Barbara,

By “Romans,” the poster means the Roman imperial government.

To be precise, Roman officials murdered Jesus at the behest of a Jewish mob.

Barbara,

I know my brother. He is an atheist who looks down on people of faith and reserves special hatred for Christianity.

This is why he kicked me in the womb. I believed in God, but he didn’t, even though we had just come from God shortly before.

But he’s always had a terrible memory, which is why he talks about 57 states.

Nothing to do with religion? He is “Saint Nicholas,” a Christian saint. Shows you how secularized he has become, people don’t even recognize him as the ancient Christian bishop that he was!

Santa Claus is a Christian figure, St. Nicholas. Clearly portrayed as such in Germany, Holland, and Scandinavia in a bishop’s miter and crosier, but still known as “St. Nicholas” here.

merry christmyth one and all

They will never release that info, just like they tried their best to release the Ft. Hood shooter happened to be Muslem. But this is a pattern that those whove been paying attention will recognize.

I don’t know for sure, but if I were a betting man, saying it were Muslems who complained is a very safe bet.

Okay, I was just hoping that you lived in the area and had some inside information.

But, yes, the media do always hide this information (although I wouldn’t think that the PC cancer center would release it). And the probability is great that the complainant is either a Muslim or an atheist of the Jewish tradition.

Liberals should not be in charge of anything. They are too dumb to realize how dumb they are.

Christ was born in March, during the Spring solstice. The holiday was moved to December to compete with the Roman Bacchanalia celebration.

You should have seen what happened when the Easter Bunny showed up there.

Ghoul,

Since you think you’re so smart, I’m going to have to school you on why a little knowledge is dangerous. First, it is true that it doesn’t seem likely that Jesus was born in December. However, we don’t know for certain when He was born; March is only a possibility.

But guess what? It doesn’t matter. We may celebrate a president’s birthday on dates on which they weren’t born, and no one says that it’s an illegitimate celebration. The point is to celebrate THAT Jesus was born, not the date He was born.

So, again, Christmas is a completely Christian holy day. Always has been and always will be.

I really hope the government employee that had nothing better to do than try to mess with the public and assert his or her authority over us is made to pay for their arrogance.

They must really think very little of the visitors to the center if they think that someone of differing or no faith is unable to appreciate the well meaning traditions of another faith.

Totally perverted comment, but what would anyone expect from a cultist?

People know. It’s the Santa Claus name they forget. The Saintly Clause, as in good will towards men. Fact is Santa Claus is alive and well. It’s up to us to keep it that way.

Those who find the need to make a public denial out of Santa Claus exhibit the hatred within themselves. Try to show them the true meaning of the Saintly Clause and they’ll recoil within their hate. It will take a lot of effort for someone so inclined to try to help them. They crave the attention their hated brings them. Without it they feel diminished and insignificant.

What I want to know is where was this guy Claus born? Does he have a birth certificate? Can his social security number be e-verified? If not, he belongs in the White House, not doing good deeds in a cancer center.

Of course, the trouble is, even that eludes them. ;P

Anti-Christian bigotry rears it’s head once again during this most holy time of the Christian calendar

its the professional victims way of getting even

like the tower of babel

Wow, real BRAIN TRUST they got “administrating” at that hospital.

Liberals and the “politically correct” truly go out of their way to be moronic and destructive and absurd, to the point where it’s actually a sin.

Fantastic then.

Comment’s like yours make me deeply sorry my Druid ancestors let the Christian missionaries in…

The people who complained about Santa Claus being at that hospital are MUSLIMS!

Get the Muslims out of the USA!

Now, here was an innocuous little story about some person having a bad day, and who was oversensitive about Santa. Silly, no big deal. Santa was invited back just as soon as the protests “for” outnumbered the protest “against.” Fine. But then you amble in like the DNA-damaged misfit hyena you are, and muck it up with Jew-hatred from left field. You don’t have a prayer of living up to your name, I’ve got news for you, buster. Where’d you get your Jew problem? Let’s see you wet yourself when the Muslims come for you, tough guy.

I call B.S. on the “someone complained” excuse…. This is just a lame excuse from spineless executives looking divert attention from their own stupidity.

John Campbell: Well said!!!! Thank you

Santa’s not real.

Santa has Christian origins, long lost beneath the commercial trappings of the holiday, but has never been used to promote the Christian faith: taking offense or banning such a common symbol would be ridiculous.

That said, I am saddened by the response of many of the self proclaimed Christians here. The snide comments, self righteous and self pitying, the rage and recrimination reflect poorly on the teachings of Our Master, and we win Him no new disciples by this behavior.

To paraphrase Gandhi, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ…” Please, lets try to be more like Him…

because they expect tolerance of them…not from them

The Eastern Orthodox Christians do not have ‘cultural Santa Claus” like the west does giving toys and such on Christmas. They have St Nicholas Day on Dec 6. for that event. In fact most of Eastern Orthodox do not even have a traditional Christmas tree.

wow…your one of the two joyless idiots.Troll…

Ghandi hated jewish people too so we shoud burn them right?

So if Im offended by some smelly durka-durka, will the PC police remove all the taxi cabs fro the city or the airport? They hate America so much, yet they are here in droves to wipe out our way of life…They eagerly sell us c yeigarettes or beer in the convience stores they own and love to sell whatever at anytime of YEAR WHEN WE ARE OVERSPENDING YET HATE US?sorry caps lock…
Why is it when Im offended by them, Im the minority and yet,nothing is changed?

more than likely complainer was a misguided secular, liberal Christian, apologizing for his beliefs in the name of multiculturalism. You will find, in spite of reports to the contrary, Moslems and Jews tend to ignore these activities, rather than complain about them.
Political correctness will kill us all in the end.

because they expect tolerance and never give it.

Along with aethists who are leftists,mulism lovers or just plain aunt jammima lovers…lol

I really neeed to not comment when tired…the spelling and grammar are way off…

when a muslim farts, how can you tell? It must mean ramadan is close because the smell is the same….obama told me this…said michelle queefs all the time and it smelled like home.

OWS members should take note of what happened here. A bunch of people – me included, left comments and scolded the Charleston’s Hollings Cancer Center. And they caved because they knew that ninnyism could not face public scrutiny. No one broke their windows. No one defecated on their lawn. No one had to call in riot police to maintain order. THIS is how EFFECTIVE protesting is done, OWS. Your way is so 1960s. Were it not for the fact that you are pains in the rear end, it would be almost quaint.

The Druids didn’t let anyone in. Patrick came in and called down fire on their clover worshipping rears.

Interesting comment, seeing that it is the narrow minded atheist worldview like yours which was probably responsible for the rescinded invitation to Santa in the first place.

Shouldn’t you be out watching Zeitgeist on Youtube from your Touchpad and engaging in anal intercourse with your beau?

Leave the comment sections to the grownups with jobs, please.

@Gaizu

And in other news, L Ron Hubbard called and wants his worldview back.

“because they weren’t Christian” WHAT?? Since when is Santa associated with Christianity? This just proves more and more that people have no idea what Christianity is. And we wonder why our country is going down the tubes. People better wake up, your country is being taken from you and you don’t even realize it.

Bet the “offended” parties didn’t mind taking the gifts and goodies he gave

East is east, Conrad, and West is west, and even though the twain meet occasionally nowadays, they don’t mix very well. As a well-adjusted product of Western Civilization, American-style, I strongly favor preserving it. And I don’t care if it doesn’t meet with approval of Muslims, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Russians, Chinese or anybody else. The only reason voices are ever heard in opposition to the traditions of Western Civilization is because one of those traditions is to allow them to speak freely. In their world, anything in opposition is suppressed or silenced completely. That makes THEM the bigots, not us.

[...] column, 14th story, link) Related stories: Cancer center kicks Santa out; ‘We don’t want to offend’ [...]

[...] (Second column, 13th story, link) Related stories: UPDATE: Invited back after public backlash… [...]

[...] 2. Hospital Welcomes Back Santa [...]

You folks are missing the point. The point is this hospital forbid it, not complainers. You should stop giving ANY money to this place. Remember, it’s the thought that counts and they would do it again in a minute if they thought they could get away with it. Close the place down!

I bet what they said actually was “We will allow Santa (we deeply apologize for the expression) back for the Christmas (we apologize for the expression even more deeply). We will compensate it with a strict Ramadan fasting for our dear friends.

They didn’t want to offend anyone, huh? It looks like they offended a lot of people by kicking Santa out. Epic fail.

I will never donate to cancer people again. Besides all the money collected from fools go to the local teatbar.

Santa Claus is not a Christian figure. He originated from a pagan holiday. C’mon sheeple, look up your statements and fact check them before spouting off.

This will really upset the god haters and the spineless liberals that love to whine and scream and complain and hate all day.

Who cares, that’s not what he is today. You used to be a monkey, do we feed you bananas and keep you in a cage?

No one cares! It’s the day we celebrate it … get over it. Grow up, get a life!

Regardless of the number of individuals involved in the murder, the Roman gov’t. ordered His death. Roman soldiers took part in the crucifixion. I’m not a Jew, but I do know that the Jews have been wrongfully blamed.
Something else about the Romans: It was they that changed the calendar to the one in use internationally. In truth, the Jewish calendar is accurate to the beginning of time. I believe it was Constantine who changed the Sabbath day to Sunday. “Remember to keep Holy the Sabbath Day…” Most Christians keep Constantine’s choice of holy days. If he had chosen a Tues. Christians today would be observing that day instead of Sunday.
I could go on, but it would be far too lengthy.
I don’t know what your religious beliefs are, but if you do some research, you’ll discover many more inaccuracies.
For the record, I am a Christian.

Great! We can’t allow secular joos destroy our holidays. They are behind ALL of these complaints.

This is why I never vote for or support liberals. They are ruining the country, which is obvious just by observing how different groups of people do not get along well in this country. The only other evidence you need is how badly Obama’s liberal policies are tanking the economy.

Yes, probably a Muslim or an atheist of some type. They have NO RIGHT to interfere with Christians, Christmas, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Easter, the Fourth of July, Halloween or any other religious or secular event that long time residents of the United States find enjoyable. They can celebrate their religious events as they wish, but have no right to interfere with the rights of others.

Unbelievable, but not so much. Last year some elementary school in MA forbid the use of the colors red and green during Christmas season as to “not offend” anybody. Red and green are religious symbols??? This war against anything remotely related to anything Christian is completely out of hand. About 90% of Americans claim to be Christians. Exactly who is being offended? This is an attempt by the few anti-God, atheist, ultra-secular big mouths to force their view on the vast majority.

My my how ignorant American Christians have become. Most of these religious people have no idea that Christmas was actually ILLEGAL in America because our founding Fathers knew this stuff came from paganism. FYI Christians almost every pagan sun god on earth was born on December 25th, and your fascination with Santa (Who is actually Baal, do the research) is because Coke brainwashed you with advertising campaigns.

Funny enough the Bible tells you in Jeremiah chapter 10 not to do Christmas!

The celebration was specifically moved to counter the Bacchanalia. That is a fact.

Course I should add, for people who may not be familiar with Christianity. You have to understand, they ignore everything their God says, and they ignore everything Jesus taught, instead they do what Paul of Tarsus says…………..after all a bunch of people who caused the dark ages VOTED the enemy of the Jesus movement into the Bible.

Good question Mark, it appears to be because 1/2 of 1% of the population now makes so much noise that everyone else is expected to fall in line with their wishes. America is no longer majority rule, it’s minority threat.

I’ll let you guess who that 1/2 of 1% is and the first hint is “Mecca”.

how about firing the A HOLE who CREATED THIS BACKLASH??

When my children were in grammar school, one parent succeeded in getting Christmas trees removed from the schools. I still remember how disappointed my kids were. As un-PC as this may be, it was one Jewish mother who did this and I still remember her and the hateful act she authored and the unhappiness she created in a lot of children.

Ben Stein wrote a remarkable piece about the obsession some non Christians have with the Christmas holidays. He has no problem with it, even enjoying the lights and festivities as well as the Menorah on display down the street. It was a sensitive and well thought out piece I wish everyone could read.

The stronger non-Christians fight to neuter our Christmas observances, the stronger we are going to fight to keep them. I have head not a word against having Menorahs displayed, by the way. The fact that this is a Judeo-Christian country is not going to change and I think these people will find that we’ve been pushed as far as we intend to be pushed.

He is not an atheist. He is a faithful servant of allah and always will be…..(lower case intended!)

Wasn’t it the Sanhedrin (sp) who were behind the killing of Jesus?

Let’s see. A VOLUNTEER dresses up like Santa and visits the hospital. So, what’s the problem???

Santa is in the hospital for the children and their families to bring cheer around the holidays ( for many it maybe their last Christmas) SO YES I believe that SANTA has every Right to be there If people dont like it GROW UP AND GET OVER IT DONT Spoil it for others!!!!!!

I don’t understand what the problem is, can someone here point it out to me?

Kate, while Santa in the US has largely become a secular figure used to promote consumption and consumerism, his origins go back to St. Nicklaus of Myra. In Europe many countries do not have Santa on Christmas Eve but St. Nicklaus Day December 6th.

Actually, if the Muslims succeed in getting sharia law accepted in this country (and they are trying) women will be worse than slaves. I joined a group called Women for Women International, which helps poor women from Muslim countries to start businesses; the group has to get permission not only from the woman’s husband, but from the village leaders, as well, just to give a woman a couple of goats. And the many reports of disfigurement and death at the hands of husbands would curl your hair.

So what??

Great that he is Christian.

We would NOT have an American nation without Christianity. Do you realize that?

The founding fathers, 80%, were devout Christians.

The First Amendment to the Constitution has been perverted to the point where it now enforces it’s OPPOSITE intention, to wit, allow the free exercise of religion.

By the way, I am NOT a Christian. Do not attend church. And take no side for any religion. I am educated however, and facts are facts. Christianity was woven into the pattern of America’s founding. (Along with the Old Testament’s teachings, which are the core of the Jewish faith.). And without it there would not have been a United States of America.

Look it up yourself, kevin; Santa originated from Saint Nicholas, a bishop. Read a book.

We had the same thing happen at my university; the atheist dean of the History department hated Christmas so much that the secretary wasn’t even allowed to keep a poinsettia on her desk, and we were not allowed to have any decorations at all. Every other department had Christmas trees and swags and window decorations (even the philosophy department) but not ours!

Our country was founded by Puritans who didn’t celebrate Holy Days, and that’s why Christmas wasn’t celebrated in early America – not because it was pagan! Geez, read a book once in awhile! Puritans were kicked out of Europe because they were no fun. Get it?

bob. Stop reading those anti-Christian pamphlets handed out by wiccans (witches, to normal people). We have a lot of your kind in my area, and I recognize the drivel.

I see that you just insist on doubling-down on your error. Not wise. In fact, your last statement is a refutation of your initial assertion.

Note that you just wrote, “The celebration was specifically moved….” WHAT celebration was moved? Answer: The CHRISTIAN one in question.

Thus, as I initially pointed out, it is a Christian celebration.

As for seeking to supplant certain pagan holidays, it certainly seems as if this was a motivation. However, this is nothing but wise. And I should also point out that, no matter when Chris’s birthday would have been observed, there always would have been some pagan holiday that had taken place during that time.

Sometimes, my friend, you need to quit while you’re behind.

Pride goeth before a fall.

They wanted him out of the way, but they had no legal standing to kill him. Pilot, the Roman governor, was in charge of that.

Sorry, the system seems to have a hiccup; I was trying to reply to someone’s question but it didn’t post that way.

Why does Hollings hire people who are so stupid?

Maybe the original Miracle on 34th Street should be required viewing for their entire management staff.

Hey, I can see the Crescent Moon from the hospital windows, we need permanent blackout drapes on all the windows, I’m offended!

If I ever end up here and see a Muslim scarf on a woman I will freak out. I am Christian, and Muslim scarfs offend me. I can choose not to look at the scarf, just like Muslims can choose not to look or visit or talk with Santa Clause. But still, Muslim scarfs offend me so I better not see a single one in that cancer center or I will complain and ruin it for all Muslims, just like one little cry baby tries to ruin it for all normal sane people.

Santa has never had alot to do with Christians, Santa has been broought down from generation to generation about what is wanted for Christmas. And from what I’ve seen alot of people and patients in hospitals love to see Santa come in, it lift’s up their spirit gives them something special to look forward to. But Santa is not related to being a christian and if you think so you have had a very upsetting childhood, all I say is God Bless you.

Bill – at best, Santa Claus (aka Saint Nicholas) is mythical character based on several different real and mythical characters. He certainly does not wholly represent the actual saint you refer too, and I would argue the one they’re talking about in this article, in his red suit, stories about elves in their workshop in the North Pole, and 9 reindeer, bears very little resemblance to that Saint…

flashman1854 – please reveal your “facts”, especially the one about 80% of our founding fathers were devout Christians. Even if you remove the word devout and include people who only go to church at Easter in the “Christians” bucket, you’re going to have a hard time putting 80% of our founding fathers in that bucket. Based on your comments, you should start your education with Thomas Jefferson who was by and large the main contributor to the Declaration of Independence, openly critical of contemporary Christian churches, and heavily criticized much of their doctrine. You can start here: http://bit.ly/tVWHf1

Actually, that wouldn’t work in this case – they need to actually understand grammar because Word wouldn’t catch that kind of error.

Not even a green squiggly line.

Read the end of the article, it says “The hospital now says it will allow holiday traditions of all faiths”. Apparently they were only honoring the Christian faith. So, of course non-christians had a problem with the Hospital

Dark Space,

You’re mistaken. In reality, 52 of the 55 Founding Fathers were members of mainstream churches. Moreover, there are copious examples of statements made by them in which they attest to their faith. One well-know one is, “Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people; it is wholly unfit for the governing of any other.” — John Adams, second president of these United States

Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. To clarify, Deists believe in the existence of God, on purely rational grounds, without any reliance on revealed religion or religious authority or holy text. Not all of our Founding Fathers were Christians–or Jews. They all, however,did share a belief in God.

Don’t twist my words, I didn’t say anyone was godless. I would imagine that you would be hard pressed to find an Atheist in 18th century America. However, to imply that they were either “devout” or serious members of “mainstream churches” is blatantly incorrect and disagrees with all the historical facts. The vast majority, to mommaroo’s point, were Deists and believed in God, but most disagreed with mainstream churches and the leadership structure within the churches.

Further, I would have a hard time assigning the word “devout Christian” to any of them. I assume your definition of this would be the same as most people’s, that a devout Christian is a true believer in J.C. and lives their life to the highest Christian standards… A) Let’s just stick with the 7 founding fathers everyone agrees on – I don’t think any one of them meet both those criteria, and most do not meet either one. Its hilarious you chose a quote from John Adams to support your incorrect statement that “52 of the 55 Founding Fathers were members of mainstream churches”. You really should pick up a book and read about the guy. He was a member of the Unitarian Church, and at least during his presidency regularly attended services – but he also very openly scorned all the more mainstream churches (Baptists, Presbyterian, Catholic, etc.) stating that they would not consider him a “Christian” anymore than he considered them true “Christians”.

Sorry, Dark, but as Daniel Moynihan once said, “You’re entitled to your own opinions, but you’re not entitled to your own facts.” Of the 55 Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution, 52 were members of mainstream Christian churches. And while Deism was bigger then than it is today, to claim that the majority of them were Deists is utterly ridiculous. It was always a minority beliefs. From Wikipedia:

“Deism was a religious philosophy in common currency in colonial times, and some Founding Fathers (most notably Thomas Paine, who was an explicit proponent of it, and Benjamin Franklin, who spoke of it in his Autobiography) are identified more or less with this system. Nevertheless, several early presidents are sometimes identified as holding deist tenets, though there is no president who identified himself as a deist. Although George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, and John Tyler are often identified as having some degree of deistic beliefs,[6] most of these identifications are controversial;[citation needed] Washington in particular maintained a life-long pattern of church membership and attendance, and there is conflicting testimony from those who knew him.”

I doubt Moynihan envisioned that someone would use his line to support fact-gathering from Google and Wikipedia. Best of luck to you in all your endeavors though.

So where do you get your facts? From thin air?

But your response is a tacit admission of defeat. It’s just too bad you’re not man enough to admit error explicitly.

Sure, I’ll bite. I read books.

I don’t think you and I are even having the same discussion, but we obviously disagree about what the basic facts are, so… I’m out. I wouldn’t call it defeat – I still think you’re completely off base, I’m just not interested in spending more time discussing it with you. Good luck spreading your version of history.

I’m just glad Santa is back!

Who gives a rat fart. It’s really Krismas, named after Kris Kringle. And I’m really PO’d someone took the Kris out of Krismas.

Who gives a rat fart. It’s really Krismas named after Kris Kringle, and I’m really PO’d they took the Kris out of Krismas.

You can always tell an expert! Thanks for contibtruing.

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Atheist… who cares? Your creator cares…and though you may not acknowledge and love God, he loves you…that’s why there is Christmas. John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son” It means to me, “For God so loves the world that he gave us Christmas”….And atheists, DO NOT lecture me with your pseudo intellectualism. I’ve heard ALL of your rhetoric….What will you say on your deathbed? “Accountant, have mercy on my soul”, “greed and banker, have mercy on my soul”, “college professor, have mercy on my soul”.”No, you will say, Lord, have mercy on my soul”. You don’t believe? You don’t believe yet, you just haven’t gotten into your foxhole!

The celebration on 12/25 was originally pagan. You guys are celebrating a pagan hioliday. Don’t you feel stupid? Jesus was born no where near 12/25 because that would be winter and shepherds wouldn’t be standing by their sheep after dusk. Suzanne, when I die, i’ll just die. I won’t be praying to some make believe character to allow me entry into some make believe place for eternity. If I did, I’d be praying to the one giving me access to 72 virgins.

The hospital was obviously denying individuals with non-christian beliefs an opportunity to celebrate their holidays. So, victory goes to the complainant as the rules have been changed to satisfy the needs of everyone. The quote from the hospital tells you all you need to know about this issue. “The hospital now says it will allow holiday traditions of all faiths because of the emotional benefits they provide for patients.” Check mate.

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I would have to say that the given examples from the Bible do not hold any leratil theological significance for Christians. Jesus has dissolved all the requirements of the OT laws and ritiuals by his passion work. As a result the Mosiac law has been superseded by Jesus which Paul clear relates in Galatians. I wonder if some better hermeneutical methods are required in order to have a better understanding of the issues involved in the texts and their broader context, the historical and cultural context also. The common arguments about strange laws like not sowing different seeds in the same field’ and the above example of blended cloth’ had important significance in within their proper cultural and theological understanding. One simple reason then behaved like this was it made the people of Isreal different because many of the religious practices of the nations around them had some of types of things as part of the cults practices. God wanted them to show who then belonged to by doing the opposite. Don’t NZ’rs like to wear certain coloured clothing to show where their loyalty resides? Why then can’t they wear unblended cloth for the same reasons? Also if I read it as a 21st century secular person then without any background then one can come up with a weaker interpretation of the text. Yet we read different types of genre for example and have different expectations and interpretations of them. Do I read the news paper in the same way a comic book? Of course not. The Bible is a challenging book and needs some homework being done when interpreting it. The issue of leratilism needs to be addressed. It seems to be used because the culture has been conditioned to view it as something associated with ignorance and to be feared. The Bible does have leratil statements, but the content and context will aid one with where the meaning lies. It is not full of leratil statements, but this type of thinking seems to show the type of presupposition might need to be reevaluated.

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